Madeline Donahue

Madeline Donahue (b. Houston, TX 1983) lives and works in Brooklyn, NY. 

Interview with Madeline Donahue

Questions by Emily Carol Burns
May 2023

Can you tell us a bit about your background and how you became interested in becoming an artist?

I drew a lot as a little kid and really needed to make art. My parents embraced this as a part of me at a young age. My parents are both very creative. My great uncle, Bill Condon, was an exhibiting artist in Houston where I grew up. My mom took me to The Menil Collection, MFA Houston, Glassel, The CAM in Houston. We went to small gallery exhibitions. My aunt and uncle were married in the Rothko Chapel. I had a lot of exposure to art. My parents did not direct me or put me into art classes but they allowed me to make room for art in my life. My elementary school art teacher gave a very slow instruction at the beginning of class. It was so slow that we never got to actually make anything. This killed me and made me more desperate to make art on my own. I searched for art classes in middle school and sought out an art high school. In high school, I was very supported by my teachers who guided me to pursue art as an adult. 

What were some of your most memorable early influences? 

The Menil Collection in Houston is my earliest influence. The collection is free admission. My uncle lived around the corner. I went there regularly, even just for a few minutes. I loved the Magritte paintings, the African art sculpture, the Picasso paintings. One of my favorite sculptures is a ceramic Kachina Mickey Mouse. It is displayed in a mirror case so you can see all sides. I love the Cy Twombly gallery and go there every time I am home in Houston. The Menil's collection is predominantly surrealist work which I think plays pretty heavily into the way I think about and compose a piece. Anything goes. 

As a mom with two kids, being aware of time in the studio is something you have spoken about—and your solution to be organized and streamlined in your practice. Whether time is limited due to family, work, or other reasons, this is a concept that a lot of artists can relate to. I love how you've created a system that works for you. What have you found to be most conducive to getting into a flow?

A lot of my work is thinking through an idea, composing it before I get into the studio. Sometimes, though, thinking can get in the way of working. I have found tricks to just make work and not let the thinking get in the way. The first few paintings I made as a 15 year old, painting in the hallway of my mom’s house, were pure joy of mixing colors and applying paint to canvas. I am still in shock that I get to make art everyday. In the studio now, I keep that joy and fun on the surface. I don’t put pressure on the potential artwork. I take the weight out of the experience and literally mix paint- mix one color- to start. I choose the easiest part of a painting or drawing to start and then can get out of my brain and enjoy the process. If I'm having a really hard time, I clean my studio or find some adjacent task or something to read. I think of each whole work in bits and pieces. I make one work at a time. It's important that nothing is too big of an endeavor. I do what I can to keep things simple and efficient and this can lead into a flow. I also work every day, even if it's just for a moment. There is less thinking and more doing when my studio practice is a continual process. 

Can you tell us about a typical day for you and how you might ensure that studio time happens, and feels satisfying to you?

I walk my kids to school in the morning with our dog (or my husband takes them to school if I've been up late in the studio). Once I've returned home I make coffee in my studio. I don't look at my computer because it eats up too much studio time. I get right to work. If I'm drawing that day, I pull from a  working list of ideas written on a sheet of paper at my drawing table. I am already composing these ideas in my head which makes it easy to get started drawing. If I'm painting, I mix one color and start painting on a canvas I set up the night before. It is important for me to have my studio ready in the morning so I don't have excuses to delay getting started. Some days I only have a few hours to work between school drop off and pick up and the time passes quickly. I paint until I start to feel anxious about time or about the work. I go for a run in the afternoon before I get my kids. If someone else is getting my kids, I will work into the night taking a break to eat dinner with my family. I then go back downstairs and work until 12-2am or until the painting/drawing/ceramic is at a stopping point. I like to finish work in a day and if I can't, I work to finish in a few days so that I do not overthink or overwork the piece. I clean as I go which is a practice that comes from years of teacher assisting and artist assisting. I also clean up when I'm finished working for the day so that I can easily get back into it the next day. 

You often try to finish a piece every day—is that true of your smaller drawings as well as larger paintings? Your paintings are large and complex so I was curious if that applied! I love this idea of a time as a limitation, as it relieves the pressure to make something perfect because you just have to go. Your work has a freshness to it, an aliveness, that I was curious if you attribute that, in part, to this approach?

The drawings are all finished in one sitting. My ceramic pieces are built in a day. This is because when the clay dries at the same time there are less issues with cracking. There are a lot of technical factors that go into making the clay pieces. I try to finish smaller paintings in a day. There is a size and time limit to this parameter and it has been an experiment to see how to make this work. Small to medium paintings I make in one sitting in one day. The painting Overtouched, which is 36"x48," was painted on a day when I started at 9am and worked through to the painting's completion. It is easy to work like this when I have a very clear idea what to make. When I am still processing an idea as I start a painting, it can take time to sort it out while I paint. Larger paintings are made over the course of a few days. I work on one thing at a time because I don't work well shifting focus between pieces. I love working wet on wet with oil paint. As I run out of time to paint, things become energetic and I make efficient decisions in the moment. I don't use photo references with the paintings but might work through something technical or compositional with a drawing and use the drawings while I paint. It's very easy to get stuck and perfectionistic with painting and I am continually working toward freedom and freshness. 

There was a great Alex Katz retrospective recently at the Guggenheim. The works were hung chronologically and you could see that his work didn't start to look like Alex Katz until he was well into his 40s. He's really working it out in the early paintings and they are awkward. His newest paintings are my favorite and are the most relaxed. This made me feel so comforted- that we just get better and better with practice and that we have a lifetime to make work. There is no rush. An artist discovers themselves through time and work. 

Since we are discussing managing studio time, what is it about oils that attracts you, versus a medium that dries quickly or is easier to clean up, like acrylic?

I used acrylic paint for a long time. When you study painting in college, you work in oils. There is also a whole discourse about materials that is very boring. I learned how to paint on acrylic paints then learned how to use oils in college. Ultimately I decided to work in oils because I grew tired of the finish of acrylic paints and fell in love with wet on wet painting with oils. I could probably paint better and faster with acrylic but I've learned (having kids) that I thrive with limitations. The limitations and difficulty of oils make me a stranger, less controlled painter and I am enjoying that in the moment right now. 

You have created a very distinct visual language in all of your recent work. In particular, your compositions have a wonderful playfulness and formal complexity that is all your own. In particular, the painting Over Touched, 2022 is a beautiful example of this. Your current series feels quite different from your much earlier work—how did your style and approach develop over time?

Thank you. This work is all time based. Making early work in this body of work, made when my daughter was 6 weeks- 2 years old, was so zoomed in. I was learning how to be a mom at the same time I was learning how to have any kind of art practice. The work was very simple and efficient. The first two years of this work was almost like learning how to paint for the first time. I used a simplified color palette and I made work about the most obvious moments as a mother. I also made a decision to immerse into this subject matter and try to make work about all of what I could imagine. When my second kid was born, I already knew a little of what to expect. I had my eyes open in a new way and could watch and think about the experience of my second birth and child from what I'd known from the first. Also, the dynamic of two kids made more room for comedy. Things are much wilder with two kids and the dynamic of that was just so inspiring. Life with two kids is all the more joyous, whimsical, terrifying, gross, impossible and playful. I was just overloaded in a new way. This made room for me to zoom out and express a bigger picture from my experiences. The work Overtouched, for example, took about 3 years to create. I heard the term when my first baby was born then I experienced the feeling of being overt-ouched as a mom (and recalled previous instances in life when I had felt this way before). I thought about it for years and then connected it to the idea of many hands- just some of the ways I might be touched in a day by my kids. Then I was able to sketch that out until there was an image that made sense to me. So now things are getting more complicated but I keep working efficiently. I still have limited time but have more experience to pull from. I've also created a visual language and can be in dialog with the work I've previously made while also being in dialog with art history. 

You recently exhibited an impressive showing at Dallas Art Fair withe Hesse Flatow. You are quite prolific—as your work becomes more known and sought-after, how are you managing the pressures of making work for multiple fairs and exhibitions?

The last year has been very busy. I am so grateful. I can manage my deadlines because I now have a home studio. I can work more. This also means I am in my studio all the time. It has been hard on my family. I am also very hard on myself and always feel like I do not make enough work. I really pushed myself over the last twelve months. I was thinking recently that I was not making enough work this year and realized I made thirty drawings last year and this year I have already made over forty drawings. I don't pressure myself to make perfect work- the good work comes from working. I really love Scissors and Overtouched and a recent painting I miss you when I'm working, I miss work when I'm with you. Those works came out of really pushing my practice. They come from drawing everyday even if I feel like I have nothing to draw. Fortunately, I can work quickly and am able to meet deadlines. I still wish I had more work. It has been hard. My husband and I try to make communication priority. I don't want him to feel neglected. I spend extra one on one time with my kids once my deadlines are finished. I tell them I love them over and over. It is really isolating working all the time. It is also such a joy to make art everyday. Everyone around me keeps hearing "After my deadline I'll _____." It feels boring to talk about work. My next show is in January so I have some time to take it easy. I will keep a 9-2pm schedule now and really get my family time back. This is the most important thing to me. 

Your drawings have an energy to them, but also are complex with specific storylines and lots of details—what is the progression of an idea from conception to final work? Do you sketch out rough ideas before jumping in to the final drawing?

I think of the drawings like writing a joke. I have an impulse for an idea and then sketch it out on a notecard or scrap of paper so I do not lose the idea. Then I rework it over and over on paper until it feels right. I want it to make sense to me and to maybe one other person. Once the story or joke makes sense, I'll add details. Sometimes, as in Overtouched, I thought about the idea so long that it was easy to add the details like hair braiding, an iphone, a motorcycle. I'm also working within the time parameters I've given myself. This leads to nice surprises- like with the drawing and painting Bathers (Livingston), the composition accidentally creates a female reproductive system. That was not planned but came out of my drawing process and working quickly. 

There is a fabulous humor and joy to your subject matter, even throughout moments where you depict the real struggles with the demands of motherhood. What types of situations do you find most compelling or "make the cut" for becoming a composition?

I try to make everything all the time. I think my limitations as a human, the literal time I have to make work, end up making the cut for me. Some ideas I don't pursue immediately are things I am still working through or maybe something that feels repetitive to a piece I've already made. When you look at the life time of an artist, there is only so much an artist can do in a lifetime. I want to make everything and I am working towards that. Also, everything evolves so quickly with babies and little kids. I am working as fast as possible to express as much as I can without losing the freshness of the moment. The work is about the present moment. I find leaning into shame, sadness, anxiety, joy, love, intimacy and tenderness are themes I am most attracted to. I am not as interested in portraiture. I think about how to make an image where the figures are activated and not static. 

What is the relationship to your drawings and paintings? Do the drawings sometimes become paintings, and how do you decide which ones will make the leap to a large-scale work?

Everything begins with a drawing. I work though ideas in drawing. Then I decide if the drawing is enough or if it makes sense to make a ceramic or painting from the drawing. 

Your studio is currently in your home in Brooklyn. Previously, did you have studio space outside the house? What has the transition been like? I also recently made this switch and I have been fascinated by how different it is! I am still working through how to incorporate studio time into life and also how to manage the natural distractions of having a space at home. How have you settled into your practice in your new space and how have you made it work for you?

I had a small studio in Bushwick. I stopped going once Covid hit. I have been working at home ever since. This was a while at my in laws house on their dining table then on my dining table at home in Brooklyn. Now that I have a studio at home, I can't imagine working anywhere else. I love it. I feel very lucky. 

You have mentioned your focus on being present with your family when you're with them, but since your family is also your subject matter and inspires your narratives, how do you capture those ideas?

I am constantly looking at everything and then processing what I see into images. I think that is part of being an artist. Observation and thinking then turns into art if you give yourself the time and materials to work through the observations. I make connections throughout the day and then sketch out anything that jumps at me. 

Color and pattern play a significant role—are the patterns referenced from daily life? Your kids' clothes seem like a source of lively patterns!

I have always been attracted to color and pattern. As a kid I bought my clothes as resale shops and always sought out patterns. I wish adult clothes were more fun. I do love the patterning of children's textiles. Most of our sheets are children's sheets and textiles. I feel better when I wear color and am around color. In my work I think there is an element about being seen. Women are expected to be quiet and perfect. Bold color can be unexpected and offensive. I play into that in my work. 

You have spoken about your kids' involvement in your studio, and how they often join you to draw. As a studio practice is often a solitary endeavor—which can be lonely at times—how does their presence alter the energy of the studio?

I am energized being with them. I get very sad if I'm working a lot and miss bedtimes or daily routine. During this phase of my life, making this work keeps me feeling like part of something bigger than me, even when I am lonely in the studio. When I need to focus, I work when they are not at home.We also talk about my schedule and they know when they can and cannot come down to my studio. I recognize when they are with me I can't do anything too precious. Ceramics is something I can totally do with them around. I don't do anything to set them up for failure. I don't invite them down to my studio while I'm about to finish an oil painting on deadline. They do come down here and there all day and give me feedback. They have a lot of pride and respect for my space in my studio. I also share materials with them and they feel included. They are 6 and 3 years old so I mostly draw and make ceramics when I work together with them. If I'm painting, I'm working on a simple part of a painting or working on an underpainting. My daughter just asked to start making her own paintings so we'll start painting with oils together this summer. 

How do you maintain momentum in your practice? How do you deal with dry spells, if they occur?

I do anything- I mix colors, I draw colors with my color pencils, I clean my studio, go see shows, watch a movie. I do anything to keep my practice going. I really believe the work comes first. I just keep making art and everything evolves. 

What do you listen to while you work?

Right now, I have the back door open and I'm listening to my backyard birds! I have a screen door in my studio and love to keep it open as much as possible throughout the year. Otherwise, I've been listening to a little ipad while I work. It's kind of like watching tv but I'm not really watching. I watch something episodic so I don't have to make choices about what to play while I work. Sometimes I watch Fleabag or Stranger Things- anything streaming on Netflix or Amazon. I also listen to podcasts like Norah Jones is Playing Along, Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend,  Broken Record, Fly on the Wall, My Favorite Murder. I listen to audiobook memoir, especially narratives about the creative process, the body or family dynamics. Jeff Tweedy's books and Rick Rubin's new book The Creative Act are really interesting examples of working through a creative process in a way that is familiar to the way I work. I love Rob Delaney- his commitment to being honest about vulnerability, death, sadness and how funny he is in the process. I think he is changing the landscape of how men respond to emotions and show vulnerability. I listened to Emily Ratajkowski's book and it is a tough listen but I am interested in her perspective on beauty and the body, on a woman's value and ownership of their body. I listen to music too but I mostly listen to one song or album over and over while I finish a late night in the studio. My ability to engage in new music has been on pause since I had my first kid. I think the last album I really loved was Andy Shauf The Party and that is several years old at this point. 

In addition to drawing and painting, you also work with clay. You also recently installed your own kiln. I find a mix of drawing, painting, and ceramics to be a harmonious blend—there is a physicality and dimensionality to ceramics that's refreshing. How does working with clay fit in with the rest of your practice, or what about this medium excites you? 

Drawing is the common thread between the mediums. I started sculpting with clay when my first child, Twyla, was a baby. I was painting in my studio at Brooklyn College but otherwise drawing was the medium I worked with at home. I took basic ceramic classes in high school but did not sculpt or work with clay until I had my daughter. I was so desperate to make something and the material was available. The desperation allowed me to think differently and use the medium in a different way for myself. I was not trying to replicate a sculpture I had seen before. I was simply drawing on the clay and then forming those drawings into freestanding pieces. I don't really know what I am doing with clay and the newness of it is exciting. I play around a lot until something works. I have many broken sculptures. I love that failure is a part of the process. 

Do you have any advice that you have found helpful or that has stuck in your mind? What advice might you give emerging artists that are hungry for a career?

A studio practice can feel very isolating. It is helpful to make time to be with other people. Gallery openings are generally open to the public. If you go on a regular basis, you see the same people. It is also helpful to do studio visits. Most artists will say yes if you ask for a visit. Crit groups are also a really pivotal way to connect to other artists. You feel less alone in your studio practice when you have others to talk to and think about the work with. Now with social media, it is easy to create crit groups and reach out to make a studio visit. Make lots of work and then don't be afraid to reach out to meet other artists to build a community around the work. 

Who are some artists you’re excited about right now, or what shows have you seen that have stood out to you? 

There is a Joan Brown show up at Matthew Marks in Chelsea. Joan's work was an early influence when I was a teenager. I always liked what I like and then will see those influences pop up in the work later. Painting is such an honest medium and connections and references will just appear as you work. I also always love looking at Rose Wiley paintings. She is connected to drawing in a familiar way but she's so much more playful and free in paint than I am. I'm always working for that feeling. I love the way she paints bugs and gas burners. Her painting Black Strap Red Fly reminds me of mosquitos. I've been trying to paint and draw mosquitos for years and recently saw her painting again. In her work, the bugs are super huge and become a compositional aspect of the painting. Seeing that painting again recently inspired a new way to think about scale and painting mosquitos. There is a Bob Thompson show up at 52 Walker. His work has all of my favorite qualities- colorful, imaginative, free. My friend Jack Arthur Wood will have work in a show at Rachel Uffner opening June 24th. I can't wait to see his work in the gallery. 

You have had a busy year so far! What are you working on in the studio as we speak? What’s coming up next for you?

Next, I have a solo show at Nina Johnson in January 2023. The next few months I'll spend making ceramics for that show before I get started on anything else. It will be nice to have a few months to play in the studio to see where the work goes next.